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Thread: Is EA building just really fun and games?

  1. #1

    Default Is EA building just really fun and games?

    I just have to wonder, as I've become familiar with this great helpful site, and I'm serious, that if most of this time and effort is really just entertainment for many.

    I'm not saying EAs don't work, in fact, I believe that many here and elsewhere do! But what really happens when it does?

    After a while, the pattern emerges that many seemingly good and decent EA systems' threads, mysteriously die and interest is lost, but no one seems to talk about it.

    Everyone is asking someone else to put up money and trade it live, and then hand over their .set file. It seems to me, that those who are trading a good EA simply leave the thread. The experienced traders know a good thing, then quietly walk away, while the newbies are still asking for more proof of a sure thing.

    How many of us have thought, "ya know, I am so frustrated, that if I could only take $2 or a pip, out of the market, consistently everyday, I'd eventually be living off this because all I would have to do is increase my lots". So simple, and actually , it seems to me that many of these fine EAs can do that. So where are the stories of folks who are doing the 'slow and steady wins the race' thing?

    I think folks are spending too much time looking for the system that will turn $100 into a million, because they are afraid to put up 10,000 so that the system will survive the drawdowns. It still takes money to make money. The "already wealthy" still have the advantage of filling their account, and just about any decent EA here would make them money, through any 50% drawdowns, news releases, low volatility sessions, blah blah.

    I've yet to see anywhere where someone has come back and said, "you know, I put up $10,000 last year, I ran an EA i found here, I optimize it every weekend, and it makes me money consistently. Sure, their might be more lucrative EAs I could spend time searching, but this one does the job for me".

    It's probably a case of just being too many EAs out there now. Kind of like internet dating sites. Just wait and a new one, or new crop will arrive, and you gotta check them out. I mean, even if someone proved in forward or live testing that the EA makes money consistently, I think folks are just prone to keep looking...for the "best".

    So what really happens when an EA does work? Am I right in thinking that only a small % see the value in it, quietly leave and trade it, while the rest are too scared to do anything with this gift that was given to them?

    good trading to all,

    SP.

  2. #2

    Default

    Sleepy....A few points....The EA doesn't "make" the money....The EA only trades YOUR strategy because you can't always be at the computer 24/5. YOU need to develop the Strategy....Then and ONLY then should you consider allowing an EA to direct your real dollars.....You should understand EVERYTHING about the EA.....EA's don't make money traders do....Although looking at the many available EA's for good strategy's is common, you need to prove/understand the strategy before allowing the EA access to real dollars....As a result I find myself trying to evolve what's already working for me rather than looking for the next super EA.....(I've also learned to be pessimistic as most of the incredible new EA's aren't....I certainly do also hope for the Holy Grail strategy and matching EA though).... Just my .02....
    Last edited by BillR; 04-12-2009 at 00:25.

  3. #3
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    Talking Don't give up.

    Quote Originally Posted by sleepypipsCDN View Post
    I just have to wonder, as I've become familiar with this great helpful site, and I'm serious, that if most of this time and effort is really just entertainment for many.

    I'm not saying EAs don't work, in fact, I believe that many here and elsewhere do! But what really happens when it does?

    After a while, the pattern emerges that many seemingly good and decent EA systems' threads, mysteriously die and interest is lost, but no one seems to talk about it.

    Everyone is asking someone else to put up money and trade it live, and then hand over their .set file. It seems to me, that those who are trading a good EA simply leave the thread. The experienced traders know a good thing, then quietly walk away, while the newbies are still asking for more proof of a sure thing.
    The sites you mention proclaiming EA's with excellent returns probably did work, but markets change. I also believe that one problem with EA's is that if everyone uses the same EA it would have adverse effects on its performance. This is the reason I won't post my EA's and set files the way I use them. The best thing you could do for yourself is to learn mql programming instead of having Funyoo and others do all your coding.

    I think you are right that a lot of people are afraid. Probably because of previous experiences. I have lost money trading forex, silver, gold, and real estate, but you don't get anywhere without taking chances, and I still trade all of the above. I learn from my mistakes and keep going.

    How many of us have thought, "ya know, I am so frustrated, that if I could only take $2 or a pip, out of the market, consistently everyday, I'd eventually be living off this because all I would have to do is increase my lots". So simple, and actually , it seems to me that many of these fine EAs can do that. So where are the stories of folks who are doing the 'slow and steady wins the race' thing?

    I think folks are spending too much time looking for the system that will turn $100 into a million, because they are afraid to put up 10,000 so that the system will survive the drawdowns. It still takes money to make money. The "already wealthy" still have the advantage of filling their account, and just about any decent EA here would make them money, through any 50% drawdowns, news releases, low volatility sessions, blah blah.

    I've yet to see anywhere where someone has come back and said, "you know, I put up $10,000 last year, I ran an EA i found here, I optimize it every weekend, and it makes me money consistently. Sure, their might be more lucrative EAs I could spend time searching, but this one does the job for me".

    It's probably a case of just being too many EAs out there now. Kind of like internet dating sites. Just wait and a new one, or new crop will arrive, and you gotta check them out. I mean, even if someone proved in forward or live testing that the EA makes money consistently, I think folks are just prone to keep looking...for the "best".
    EA's do work, but like Bill said, find a stategy that works for you and build an EA to trade that way. Sites like this are valuable ways to learn new strategies and to even learn mql programming. You are right that it does take money to make money but, with a little patience, 20-30% a month multiplies quickly. I even transferred my IRA to a self directed custodian and trade a combination of EA's on my IRA account at very conservative levels but still manage to make 20-30% a month with max combined drawdowns of 10%.

    If you are interested in live trading with EA's or already trade with EA's a few precious lessons which I've learned are:
    1) Beware of backtests showing huge profits. Check the max drawdown. You would have to be crazy to trade an EA which shows a max drawdown greater than your starting equity. Your max drawdown in your backtest should never be more than what you are willing to lose. It doesn't matter if your test account equity already doubled before the huge drawdown because you have to believe that drawdown will happen the day you start trading. Also, for this reason don't use the MM settings during backtest.
    2) StopLoss StopLoss StopLoss. Whatever value you decided was an acceptable loss at the beginning has to be set in the EA. And know that you can't touch it. The benefit of an EA is that no emotion is involved. Let the EA trade your strategy, getting involved in anyway is a bad idea.
    3) Get in and get out. Maybe I just don't understand these new martingaling and gridding techniques well enough but I do not see the benefit of holding a trade for more than a day or trading both directions at the same time.

    Just my two cents. Good Luck!

  4. #4
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    Default Range Dodger Ea

    (WHERE IS THE RIGHT PLACE TO POST ABOUT THIS NEW EA)
    Hello
    I appreciate your work here in helping us traders thanks a million and one.
    I have this high profitability strategy which I hope you can code into ea
    EA NAME-range dodger
    PAIRS –Eurusd, gbpusd, and usdjpy,
    TIME FRAME- 4hr
    INDICATORS-
    1) Sma6 and sma 9
    2) Awesome oscillator
    3) Parabolic sar step 0.02 maximium o.2
    4) Parabolic sar step0.3 max 0.2
    5) Demarker -period 12 level 0.8, 0.3, 0.1, 0.0
    6) RSI 14 levels 55.4 and 43.4
    7) Stochastic 8,4,4
    8) Adx 21 levels 17
    BUY ENTRY
    NEXT candle if at present candle close
    1) 6sma >9sma
    2) Awesome oscillator colour on buy
    3) Both Parabolic sars step 0.02 and 0.3 below candle
    4) Both Demarker and stochastic value not above or = 0.8 and 90 respectively-“( can buy if only one variable is met)”
    5) RSI >or = 55.4
    6) Candle closed high
    7) ADX positive higher than adx negative and period not less than 17
    EXITs-
    1) Close of Any Next candle that closed in high or 70 pips high price movement (not candle close) in favour of trade direction.
    If at close of present candle or both Demarker >or = 0.8 and either (stochastic > or = 90) or (parabolic sars 0.3 appears above candle)
    2) Close of Present candle parabolic sars 0.02 appears above candle and candle close low
    3) Close of Present candle if demarker <or = 0.5 from above 0.7

    SELL Entry
    1) 6sma <9sma
    2) Awesome oscillator colour on sell
    3) Both Parabolic sars step 0.02 and 0.3 above candle
    4) Both Demarker and stochastic value not below or = 0.1 and 6 respectively-“(can sell if only one variable is met”)
    5) RSI <or = 43.4
    6) Candle closed low
    7) ADX positive lower than adx negative and period not less than 17
    EXIT
    1) Close of any Next candle that closed in low or 70 pips low price movement (not candle close)in favour of trade.
    If at close of present candle or both Demarker <or = 0.1 and either (stochastic > or = 6) or (parabolic sars 0.3 appears above candle)
    if demarker < or = 0.0
    2) Close of Present candle if parabolic sars 0.02 appears below candle and candle closes high
    3) Close of Present candle if demarker > or = 0.5 from below 0.3

    Money management
    1) Defualt- Open two trade at signal both with 100 pips stoploss, one with 300 take profit and the other
    with 80 pips takeprofit and takeprofit of 30 pips if price moves up to 60 pips in its favour and retraces.
    2) After first one takes profit the second trades has trailing stop of 75 and breaks even at – 10 pips

    3) Double lot size for next trades after 3 consecutive lossess and go back to default after any 2 consecutive wins.

    That’s all
    The setup might be complex but it is really a trend master and range dodger if well coded to follow these rules.
    I hope to get your usual quick response Thanks ones more.

  5. #5
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by princefred View Post
    (WHERE IS THE RIGHT PLACE TO POST ABOUT THIS NEW EA)
    Hello
    I appreciate your work here in helping us traders thanks a million and one.
    I have this high profitability strategy which I hope you can code into ea
    EA NAME-range dodger
    PAIRS –Eurusd, gbpusd, and usdjpy,
    TIME FRAME- 4hr
    INDICATORS-
    1) Sma6 and sma 9
    2) Awesome oscillator
    3) Parabolic sar step 0.02 maximium o.2
    4) Parabolic sar step0.3 max 0.2
    5) Demarker -period 12 level 0.8, 0.3, 0.1, 0.0
    6) RSI 14 levels 55.4 and 43.4
    7) Stochastic 8,4,4
    8) Adx 21 levels 17
    BUY ENTRY
    NEXT candle if at present candle close
    1) 6sma >9sma
    2) Awesome oscillator colour on buy
    3) Both Parabolic sars step 0.02 and 0.3 below candle
    4) Both Demarker and stochastic value not above or = 0.8 and 90 respectively-“( can buy if only one variable is met)”
    5) RSI >or = 55.4
    6) Candle closed high
    7) ADX positive higher than adx negative and period not less than 17
    EXITs-
    1) Close of Any Next candle that closed in high or 70 pips high price movement (not candle close) in favour of trade direction.
    If at close of present candle or both Demarker >or = 0.8 and either (stochastic > or = 90) or (parabolic sars 0.3 appears above candle)
    2) Close of Present candle parabolic sars 0.02 appears above candle and candle close low
    3) Close of Present candle if demarker <or = 0.5 from above 0.7

    SELL Entry
    1) 6sma <9sma
    2) Awesome oscillator colour on sell
    3) Both Parabolic sars step 0.02 and 0.3 above candle
    4) Both Demarker and stochastic value not below or = 0.1 and 6 respectively-“(can sell if only one variable is met”)
    5) RSI <or = 43.4
    6) Candle closed low
    7) ADX positive lower than adx negative and period not less than 17
    EXIT
    1) Close of any Next candle that closed in low or 70 pips low price movement (not candle close)in favour of trade.
    If at close of present candle or both Demarker <or = 0.1 and either (stochastic > or = 6) or (parabolic sars 0.3 appears above candle)
    if demarker < or = 0.0
    2) Close of Present candle if parabolic sars 0.02 appears below candle and candle closes high
    3) Close of Present candle if demarker > or = 0.5 from below 0.3

    Money management
    1) Defualt- Open two trade at signal both with 100 pips stoploss, one with 300 take profit and the other
    with 80 pips takeprofit and takeprofit of 30 pips if price moves up to 60 pips in its favour and retraces.
    2) After first one takes profit the second trades has trailing stop of 75 and breaks even at – 10 pips

    3) Double lot size for next trades after 3 consecutive lossess and go back to default after any 2 consecutive wins.

    That’s all
    The setup might be complex but it is really a trend master and range dodger if well coded to follow these rules.
    I hope to get your usual quick response Thanks ones more.
    Well trending strategy, but stucks in ranging market - the old problem = no problem in trending, but sucks in ranging. :-)
    rsi 55, 44 is to high/low, in ranging it would hit, but often retrace nearly at this marks, further 100 sl to to close for 4H tf = to much stoplosses
    personal for me, at 4 hour tf, you should always trade manual and more pairs for more entries and diversification:

    scalping: 1,5M TF 1-max 3 pairs
    4 hour: all pairs till spread 15, depending on your broker how many pairs you can trade

    big boys trade always equal or higher then 4H tf = trade their strategy (fibo, breakout, s & r)

    my 2c

    you should post your idea in "ideas for expert advisor" section

  6. #6
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    Default

    I am newbie too and sorry for my poor English.

    I am not a coder, I did learn 1 month Assemble language old day so I am able to understand some EA coding in newbie level.

    It is hard to implement exact manual system in EA, Why?, EA programming is very limited, In EA programming, you are dealing with few bars of data from indicator output.

    Example: EURUSA with 2 moving average crossing

    MV1 output level = 1.45 previous bar = 1.44
    MV2 output level = 1.5 previous bar = 1.49
    current close price = 1.41 previous close = 1.40

    With this set of datas, EA have to decide to buy and sell, it is much limited than Human manual system.

    Manual system is approm .

    Human = slow but Very good pattern EA computer
    indicators = 300+ bars data present in front of you, color, ETC help human to recongize winning pattern.

  7. #7
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ricky101 View Post
    I am newbie too and sorry for my poor English.

    I am not a coder, I did learn 1 month Assemble language old day so I am able to understand some EA coding in newbie level.

    It is hard to implement exact manual system in EA, Why?, EA programming is very limited, In EA programming, you are dealing with few bars of data from indicator output.

    Example: EURUSA with 2 moving average crossing

    MV1 output level = 1.45 previous bar = 1.44
    MV2 output level = 1.5 previous bar = 1.49
    current close price = 1.41 previous close = 1.40

    With this set of datas, EA have to decide to buy and sell, it is much limited than Human manual system.

    Manual system is approm .

    Human = slow but Very good pattern EA computer
    indicators = 300+ bars data present in front of you, color, ETC help human to recongize winning pattern.
    You have to decide when the ea have to buy and sell and much important when he should do nothing!!!

    example ema 50 - 100 with check of rsi 50:

    if(your conditions= no open trades, ea should check if there is a signal available)
    {//buy
    if(iMA(0,0,50,0,MODE_EMA,PRICE_CLOSE,0)>iMA(0,0,10 0,0,MODE_EMA,PRICE_CLOSE,0) &&
    iRSI(0,0,21,PRICE_CLOSE,0)>50 && (iRSI(0,0,21,PRICE_CLOSE,1)<50 ||
    iRSI(0,0,21,PRICE_CLOSE,2)<50))
    { myOrderType=0; }
    //sell
    if(iMA(0,0,500,MODE_EMA,PRICE_CLOSE,0)<iMA(0,0,100 ,0,MODE_EMA,PRICE_CLOSE,0) &&
    iRSI(0,0,21,PRICE_CLOSE,0)<50 && (iRSI(0,0,21,PRICE_CLOSE,1)>50 ||
    iRSI(0,0,21,PRICE_CLOSE,2)>50))
    { myOrderType=1; }
    }// end indi

    then a switch function with booth myOrderType's

    my 2c
    Last edited by ixbone; 08-08-2009 at 09:35.

  8. #8
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    Default

    EA building is really very fun , I love trying to find out which currency pairs and timeframe that the EA trades best.

    After you find an EA that trades well with a standard size lot of 0.01 or 0.1, then you move on to testing it with progressive money management. Next, try to figure out the best risk % that the bot can take, with consideration to the relative drawdown and profit factor.

    After it has shown positive results on a yearly basis, then move on to demo forward testing for a few days or weeks on the broker which you want to go live with. Once you're satisfied with the results, move on to live testing.

    If you're testing a scalper-type EA on a variable spread broker, it is also important to take note of the spread changes during the point of time which you initiate the backtest. Usually once I have decided to trade that EA on live, I will have 1 live and 1 demo, both will be trading the same strategy at the same time and I will compare the differences between the both of them at the end of each day's trading. Usually demo will have more trades done as there are no requotes in demo trading.

    I guess the best bots that work on EURUSD or USDJPY on a yearly basis from year 1999 to current date and is also able to give high profitability and low relative drawdown and smooth equity curve and with reasonable stop loss and has shown good forward testing from both demo and live trading, are probably harder to find.

    --------------------------------------------

    If you have a high capital to invest in, probably you wanna look at robo miner, for audnzd and eurchf pairs, pretty steady bot. I personally have not used this bot on living trading yet. But I have seen people with success with it. Basically, it is designed to win most of the time, but doesn't win that much. If you target to gain realistically at least about 25-35% on your live account per year, shouldn't be a problem with this bot. Doesn't really work well with low deposits.

    As for EURUSD bots, If I were to open another live account just to trade on eurusd, I would probably choose forex mega droid pro. Most really just blow up after a few years. Donchian scalper looks good too, but has high drawdown at certain points. Nevertheless Donchian is still a good bot. Mastermind 1.1 with funyoo's set is good too, but it doesn't seem to trade in year 2008 and 2009. vforce is good too, but it only works on year 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2009.

    EurGbp and EurChf bots:
    Too many of them, but very few of them work with high spread rates of 5 pips for EURGBP during asian session and 6 pips for EURCHF. Fapturbo on EurChf looks good, depends on broker though. You can try FXCBS, but they charge high commission rates, you can also try GoMarkets, spread rates are about 4.5 pips to about 5.8 pips during live trading hours, but still the bot is able to generate a reasonable profit. You can also try FxOpen or Tadawulfx or liteforex for their fixed spread rates during these hours, but my guess is you will probably get requoted very often

    -----------------------

    Bots which I consider for live have to do the following:
    - Work a backtest from 1999 to current date
    - Work reasonably well on a yearly backtest from 1999 to 2000, from 2000 to 2001, 2001 to 2002, so on and so forth current date.
    - If the broker i'm trading with has variable spread rates, then I will backtest the bot when the currency pair is at its highest spread rate to get a feel of the maximum damage incurred. There are some free indicators you can get to see the market spread rate if the bot you're testing doing lists the spread rate which it is being tested on.
    - At any point of time during the yearly backtest, if the relative drawdown is too high, I will reduce the risk% or increase stoploss and retest again. Generally i'm satisfied with any relative drawdown that is lower than 50-60%.
    - Work on live demo forward testing
    - Work on live real forward testing with low capitals of probably 500 usd on a micro lot size of 0.01 lotsize account. Will check the journal for any requotes.
    - Once it works on that reasonably reputable broker with low capital, then I will consider injecting more capital.

    -------------------------------------
    There are many many good bots, most of them can be found on this forum for free too.

    Free:
    1. Psudocarcharias - Pseudocarcharias

    2. vforce EA - vForce Like EA

    3. Yourlucky 2.0b - _rdb_The Best Free EA - Forex Trading

    4. RSI Double EA - RSI Double Levels EA
    This is a reasonably good EA that was overlooked, I remembered I optimized it a few months back on EURUSD H1 and it has shown steady profits over the years. It didn't give fantastic results, but still in the profit range. If I can find that set file, I will post it here.

    That's all I can remember for now.

    I'm not a guru, i'm still learning, I only started to even know about forex trading since october 2008 and only started to know about forex botting in feb this year. So I probably can't give great advice like the more seasoned veterans and gurus here. There are many great traders on this forum, most of them are accomplished traders already.

    All I can say is, don't give up on EA trading. It really does work . If you're aiming for huge wins, don't expect to win all the time, sometimes a bot that loses in this month can earn alot in the next month. There also bots that work great on forward test only like Excalibur.

    EA Trading is so fun, I love it, and I love this forum with all its great members .

  9. #9
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    Default

    Please re-read BILLR answer, EA is only a tool, you have to know when to use it with the right time, or you have to develop the strategy to use it, Without knowing what they do, and putting your real hard earn money in it, it is very risky.

    I tried to play with many EA's,
    Robo miner, - it alwsys do so well in backtest , However, In forward demo test, it won for a awhile and it lose all money in few months.

    Psudocarcharias - it is a very nice program, I won for awhile in demo forward test but when time come, It will lose all money as well.

    vforce EA - it is a very buggy program, If you can fix its bugs, and know how to set it up right and use it at the right stable market, you might win some money.

    Yourlucky 2.0b - It probably the best free scalper EA, If you use them right, while market is stable in ranging market, you might win some money, If you use it wrong in trending market, you will lose all your money.

    I quit play with EA and learning manual trading, I make Aprom. $100 per day or $500 per week in my spare time, I have been winning for 2 months now.

    Once I know the market well, I might play with EA again. again, EA is tool for your strategy.


    <Sleepy....A few points....The EA doesn't "make" the money....The EA only trades YOUR strategy because you can't always be at the computer 24/5. YOU need to develop the Strategy....Then and ONLY then should you consider allowing an EA to direct your real dollars.....You should understand EVERYTHING about the EA.....EA's don't make money traders do....Although looking at the many available EA's for good strategy's is common, you need to prove/understand the strategy before allowing the EA access to real dollars....As a result I find myself trying to evolve what's already working for me rather than looking for the next super EA.....(I've also learned to be pessimistic as most of the incredible new EA's aren't....I certainly do also hope for the Holy Grail strategy and matching EA though).... Just my .02....

  10. #10
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    I'm glad you have found a system that works for you, manual or automated, doesn't matter as long as it works, wish you many pips to come .

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